DNI Igor Shooters (Girkin) Interviewed by Orhan Jemal
Mountain gave birth to a mouse
Former commander of the armed forces of the DNI Igor arrow (Girkin) in an interview with "Rosbalt" expressed the opinion that the ceasefire in the Donbass observed would not be that war in the Ukraine is not even reached its peak, and that it can be stopped, only "freeing from Kiev Nazis. "
- Could you give an overall assessment of the agreements that were reached at the recent talks in Minsk?
- In a nutshell, the mountain has brought forth a mouse. All those hours of negotiations, all this tension forces will have consequences in the military.The only thing that was there, is that Vladimir Vladimirovich has demonstrated a willingness to take a very serious concessions for the sake of peace. But I believe that the main condition - the cease-fire, the Ukrainian side will not comply and will automatically be thwarted all the other arrangements.
- In your opinion, is it possible to say that the project "New Russia" "drained"?
- From my point of view, the war has not even reached its peak, and what we will come in the end, is now fully nobody understands. Forces that are drawn into the war on both sides, are constantly increasing.Clearly that Ukraine in case of success is not going to be limited to regain control over those territories, which now occupies the militia. Next in line is worth the Crimea, then, perhaps, the question will arise of Transnistria, around which now also aggravate the situation. So do any conclusions too early, but as the trend, of course, it is possible to state unequivocally: the fifth column in the face of Russian bureaucratic-oligarchic alliance is not even completely against "merge" New Russia in exchange for the lifting of sanctions and de facto Russian recognition of the Crimea. But it will not work.
- Do you believe that Putin is in the wake of the fifth column?
- I would not say so. I believe that he makes decisions in advance proschityvaya many moves. I think it originally came from the fact that the truce will be in the nature of the failed from the first hour. Whatever it was, even if I'm wrong, very soon we will see whether Ukraine observe a truce.
But with all this, I must point out that were committed very serious mistakes in spring and autumn of last year. The first - when the opportunity was missed to reunite the New Russia, the former Ukrainian territory, where Russian and Russian. The second - in the fall when the militia was forced to stop the advance, the possibility of the defeat of the junta was lost and fall Kyiv authorities did not happen.
- On the Minsk talks protagonists were Putin Poroshenko Merkel and Hollande, and what is the role and place in this process, the current leadership of the DNI and the LC?
- I was not present at the talks in Minsk and competent to speak about it I can not. Progress in negotiations know, like everyone else, from the media, but the information that I have, they were present as extras.They were ordered something there to sign or not to sign, they came and signed. Independent role they, of course, there is not no play.
- In previous negotiations in Minsk had a similar situation when representatives of the DNI signed the documents, but further Purgin and Zakharchenko said that they were not signed as a contracting party, and the witnesses who were present at the meeting. Now the same thing happens?
- Not ready to answer those talks, I also did not attend, and what to Purgina and Zakharchenko, so they make a lot of statements: they are going to advance, retreat, then going to reconcile. Frankly, I am not seriously to any of their claims.
- If your prediction comes true, and the agreement is still to be implemented, whether those areas of Donetsk and Lugansk regions, which are now under the control of militias exist as autonomous?
- I do not consider the possibility of implementing these agreements in any form. Even if the Ukrainian side, by some miracle will comply with them, but she will not comply with them, and this has already declared part of the Ukrainian warlords, the next step is find out that already comply with their armies will not, as people defend their republic and died not to enter a part of Ukraine.
- In other words, if the leadership of the DNI and LC will insist on the implementation of the signed documents, those who really commands the militia, can get out of control?
- I do not know whether they will go out of control, or in some other way will affect their leaders, but in any case, the agreement in the part where it comes to returning to the Ukraine and the transfer of border control of Ukraine, they observe, of course, will not and will not obey the orders in this regard descent named above.
- You admit the possibility of rebellion?
- No, I believe that the gentlemen Zaharchenko and carpentry themselves will not give such orders. But I repeat, this will not happen simply because the Ukrainian side to abide by these agreements will not, in this you can be quite sure.
- The agreement includes a wide neutral zone, for some types of artillery is 140 km. Does this mean that the Donetsk, for example, will be left without artillery general - because there the front line passes very close to the city?
- You and I were 4 months witnessed implementation of the so-called Minsk September agreements.According to the agreements strip disengagement was much more modest, but even these agreements never implemented by the Ukrainian side. They are not taken any mortar battery, no guns, no "Grad", a single tank. Why did you decide that this time they will do anything and take weapons much farther?
- Well, if the item is realized on the capture of Kiev under control of the state border, it shall be turned into a blockade unreliable areas?
- Who let them there? Implement this point you can, if only Ukrainian border guards will stop off at the gates to the territory of Russia. Under the current arrangements Minsk does not contain any item implemented starting with the first, a ceasefire.
Me as a military man, it happens at the front, at the forefront in many different qualities, it is obvious that a cease-fire between the two sides is not enough neytralke even wider. To do this, between the two parties, neither of which does not consider himself a loser, you must enter the third delimiting effect. And because of the peacekeepers out of the question, the data arrangement is simply impossible to implement even technically. There will always be people who want to continue fighting, and in the first place - from the Ukrainian side.
- You mentioned the warlords who have already announced the refusal to respect the ceasefire ...
- In this case I was referring to Mr. Yarosh, who said from the hospital that his subordinate troops and allies of the National Guard will not fulfill that agreement.
- And in the Donbass there are forces ready to speak out against Minsk-2?
- Donetsk more disciplined army, and at the moment I have not heard such statements.
- It turns out that everything you have agreed in Minsk, can not be done, as it is not in the interests of Donbass, and on the other hand, this is not possible because Yarosh disagree?
- Not only Yarosh, and Poroshenko not agree too. In fact, this agreement does not satisfy anyone, and including the Donbass. None of the parties were defeated and does not consider himself a loser. Ukraine will fight for sure, and will be forced to fight Donbass.
- And how you like the agreement that you would consider realizable?
- Is it possible to stop the war only way to liberate Kiev from those Nazis who were sitting there, and I think that it should make Ukrainians themselves. This power is, above all, anti-Ukrainian, as it uses the Ukraine for kindling the fire of war with Russia. While sitting in Kiev the regime that emerged from the coup d'etat, which aims spearheaded against Russia, the war will continue in one form or another. Only after the liberation of Ukraine from this regime and the formation of the new government that will think, indeed, the interests of Ukraine, and not on the implementation of the orders from Washington, we can talk about any bounds. For example, on the border between Ukraine and Novorussia or Western Ukraine and Ukraine.
All will depend on the specifics of how this government is. If it is unambiguous enemy of Russia - "moskalyaku on Gilyaki", no peace in the Ukraine will not.
- In the agreements there is an item on the withdrawal of foreign forces. Is it possible that volunteers from Russia will now be prosecuted as mercenaries?
- Theoretically, anything is possible. It all depends on what kind of policies will be the president of Russia, but at the moment there is nothing that suggests that Vladimir Vladimirovich take something like that.
- A Donbass could potentially survive without Russian volunteers?
- Well, if-then ... Actually Donbass and survived - 90% of the militia, when I commanded them, were local.
- Are not you at that time were an appeal to the local people, saying, how is it that you are looking from the couch, sipping a beer in the war on TV, while Russian volunteers put their bellies for you?
- You quoted me word for word, but even if there were some kind of treatment with lashings of similar meaning to what you said, you are believed to war propaganda should have a value? My words have led to an influx of local militias.
- When I was at the end of August in those places, I had a different impression.
- I left the New Russia in the middle of August and I can only answer for this period.
- Well, in July, we at the same time you were in Donetsk, and I have a feeling that at that time the percentage of local though was higher, but still - 50 to 50.
- I do not know in what units you have been, may in the "East," may "stronghold", but these units total was less than a quarter of all the armed forces of the DNI, and the Slavic team that led heavy fighting outside Donetsk, in which " East "was not involved at all, and" Hold "involved, but to a lesser extent, the Russians were even less than 10%. It is easy to check by looking at the percentage of the company commanders, batteries.
- Last December, a number of Luhansk warlords, particularly Paul Napping, criticized the leadership of the LC. What is the so-called Cossack Lugansk opposition and how justified their claims?
- I will not go into details, because they do not fully competent in Luhansk affairs and have no right to talk about it. The only thing that I said rear LC, ie the organization of life and the army and the local population, was organized by an order of magnitude worse than the DNI. While in Donetsk Republic also a mess. This information comes to me constantly. People come to see me every day. But if a DNR have at least a pitiful semblance of order, in Lugansk not even that. As I understand it, the main commanders claim related, first of all, it is this.
- And how justified force liquidation of opposition Luhansk commanders and their units, such as Batman (Alexander Bednova) or group "Odessa"?
- About the "Odessa" can not say anything. With regard to the rapid response team "Bettman" I interact with them, they took part in the fighting, have considerable merit. I personally met with the commander of the San Sanych Bednova, and he made me a very good impression. In general, I believe that regardless of the accusations against him are put forward, what happened - it's just murder, and is not associated with any laws, even the military.
- Do you know who did it?
- It is known, but I will not comment on it.
- Tell me, is there a DNR analogue Lugansk opposition?
- I would not talk about the opposition. All the units that you are now logged in the opposition, are included in the unified army.
- Nevertheless, they also criticize management.
- That's right, we are talking about verbal criticism. In the military, if you talk about the protests warlords, it means that the tanks were, as some Surat Geseynov (Azerbaijani military figure in the Karabakh conflict, revolted against the Azerbaijani President Heydar Aliyev - approx. Ed.). And just to criticize - it is not speech and the expression of discontent.
- A DNR is such an "expression of discontent"?
- As far as I know, no.
Interviewed by Orhan Jemal