Saturday, March 7, 2015

The quest of whom Europeans descended from is debated at The Saker...

The quest of whom Europeans descended from is debated at The Saker...
The Vineyard of the Saker
Blog Address: http://thesaker.is/could-there-be-a-grain-of-truth-in-the-ukrainian-propaganda/#comment-76136

My Favorite;

Uncle Bob 1 March 07, 2015
Haha,you hit on my favorite line of study,”history of ethnicity in Europe”.Its common to say that Central and Eastern Europe (Russia very much included) are “crossroad nations”.They have for many centuries had many peoples “cross” them.Settling,and contributing their DNA to those nations and peoples.While that’s true of Europe as a whole.No more so than in the East.Some examples,40% (at least) of Romanians are determined to have Slav ancestry,50% of Hungarians (not even to mention the many,many,Hungarians that descended from German immigrants),and 1/3 of Eastern Germans have some Slavic ancestry.While Poland had thousands,maybe hundreds of thousands of German settlers through the ages.Mostly assimilated into the Polish nation.And for hundreds of years have been Polish.The same,though even on a larger scale even in the Czech Republic.While much of the Eastern Slovaks are descendants of Rus speaking people (even until the 19th century for some). Much of Northern Belarus was util at least the 16th century Lithuanian speaking.And the Carpathian region of today’s Ukraine was until the same period mostly ethnic Vlach (Romanian).Over the centuries they assimilated into the “Rus” ethnicity.While in modern Southern Russia and Eastern Novorossia there are traces of Caucasian and “Tatar” ancestry in many people’s DNA.Equally in Northern Russia there are many of “Finnic” ancestry (including reportedly Putin and Andropov).And in the Moscow region DNA tests show a large percentage of the original Slavic tribes there are brothers of other Slavic tribes that settled Eastern Poland.As to the “Tatars”.We really are talking of several different groups.The Kazan Tatars and the Crimean Tatars in the main.Except for a Turkic ruling elite and warrior group originating in the East (and the centuries assimilated them).The majority of those peoples are very mixed.Among the Kazan Tatars,with Finnic and Slavic elements mostly.And among the Crimean Tatars equally so.With Caucasian,and Slavic peoples mostly.Just before the Russians ended the Tatar raids.It was estimated almost 75% of Crimea’s population was made up of slaves or their descendants.And as we’ve heard before,most of the Crimean slave trade was in Slav slaves.
Before anyone think this is unique to the East.Let’s examine Western Europe for a second.In the UK,scholars say the native (non-recent immigrant population) has a bedrock of various Celtic peoples.Layered by a Germanic (Anglo-Saxon) layer.Sprinkled with Norman French DNA also found in many.And as we also know,several millions of people are even more recent (since the Middle Ages) immigrants from Ireland.And Ireland itself has seen vast numbers of “British” settlers over the centuries.In Spain,there is Berber DNA in the South,mostly.And in Catalonia in the 17th and 18th centuries a,great immigration from France brought many,many,people.That over the centuries assimilated as “Spanish”.In France,besides the large numbers of Germanic immigrants that settled,and intermarried there (Franks and Goths).You have Flemish in the far North,Germans in the far Eastern departments (Lorraine and Alsace).You have Italian immigration throughout French history.Historians say 5 million Italians in the 19th century.Many,many,stayed and assimilated.Have you noticed the numerous French politicians and others with Italian sounding surnames.In Belgium,its disputable how many people are descended from Flemish or Walloon backgrounds in the two communities.But Brussels itself,a mostly French speaking city in a Flemish region.Has many of its “French” with Flemish surnames.In Finland as much as 15% or more of the population is thought to have Swedish ancestry.And probably in Sweden many are of a Finnic background.While far Southern Swedes are really of Danish ancestry.So really all Europe is a mixed continent of many different European ethnicity.
And lets not think Europe is unique either.In the Maghreb of North Africa,most “Arabs” are Arab speaking Berbers.Who are leavened by vast ancient European ancestry themselves.And in Egypt the mix of peoples is very much seen.Ancient Egyptian DNA mostly,but heavy mixture of Southern European and Arab tribal DNA.While Southern Egypt also adds heavy Nubian DNA.The Syrian,Palestinian,Lebanese,Jordanian peoples are he results of native peoples,with Southern European mixture,leavened with Arab DNA.Like North Africa most “Arabs” are Arabic speaking,not truly Arab descended.In Turkey,the vast,vast,majority are native Anatolian peoples with an overlay of Turkic groups added.I could go on and on,but the message is clear.There is no such thing as “pure” one group or the other anymore.What in the modern world determines “nationhood” (in the European sense,of ethnicity) is language and culture.In the late 18th,early 19th century,movements started to claim nations on the basis of nationalism.If you spoke the same language (or dialects of one) and followed the same culture.You were considered a “nation”.That,over most of Europe,especially Eastern and Southeast Europe has led to the nation states we see today.In Russia, it has led more to the concept of the “Russian Mir”.Otherwise,how would such a huge area be united effectively.The problem with the fake Ukrainian nationalist ideology (besides its adoption of fascism),is it doesn’t recognize the difference between “regionalism” and “nationalism”.Two examples to show the point: Bavarian’s speak a Bavarian German dialect,and yet consider themselves also “Germans”.In France,the Southern and Northern French speak at home different dialects of the “French” language.Yet who thinks Toulouse isn’t really France.
(sidenote: All peoples are equal,with a fascinating history.The facts stated,are just that,facts.I don’t consider one group or the other as “better” than the other.But I do find the studies of all these peoples interesting.And that is why I’m always horrified at the misuse of nationalism by the Ukrainian fascists)

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